According to the International Iranian Stone Exhibition, if we are talking about the mine, we must address an important stage before that. Mineral and Mine Exploration It is important for better and more secure access to a mineral resource so that national capital is not wasted following the discovery and identification of promising areas by the private sector and organizations working in parallel on exploration. Preventing the loss and desire of capital in this sector requires the use of organizational power whose specialized work and legal duty is exploration, and the private sector must demand it.

To investigate this issue, I sat down with Mohammad Baqer Dori, Deputy Director of Exploration of the Geological Survey and Mineral Exploration Organization, in his office. He spoke of Iran's mineral exploration and capabilities, and complained about organizations and companies that are pressuring the Geological Survey in every possible way to take certain known mineral areas out of the organization's hands and not allow them to be auctioned off. be placed. You can read the description of this conversation below.

* Figures about Iran's mineral reserves have been repeated. Let's go over the numbers and look at why the Geological Survey has a deputy called Exploration, and what is its main purpose and mission?

Every science must one day be useful. The study of geology is of little value in itself. We must be able to use the earth sciences to improve human life and future. The fact that a geological map is prepared is the basis for civil works, road construction and one of its applications is the exploration of minerals and mines. The Geological Survey conducts mineral exploration studies to supplement the study of earth sciences and make the best use of its benefits and generate wealth. Perhaps the first point in answering why we study the earth sciences is the issue of mining and exploration.

* Why was the Deputy for Exploration created?

Due to the importance of mineral exploration, a separate deputy was established and has been involved in exploration since the establishment of the organization. The mining sector has a special place when we divide the branches of science. The type of study and the type of view that the geological organization has is different from the type of view that different organizations, devices and companies have. For the Geological Survey as a governing body, there is less economic discussion. The organization on the ground is looking for all the minerals in general and is studying to see if it has potential or not. For the private sector, working on a 100,000 or 250,000 sheet may not be justified if there are no minerals, but the Geological Survey, as the governing body, undertakes this study and prepares the basics and information for use by government and the private sector.

* How much have you done your governing duty?

Exploration is a general word but it has stages. Identification, exploration, general exploration and detailed exploration go back to the scale of the work. One day you cross a country and say it has some mineral. The next day, you enter a smaller area and say that it is prone to some kind of mineral, and one time you make a smaller area and walk 500 meters and say that there is a discussion about this type of mineral here. Finally, we reach a stage where they are sampled at intervals of one meter.

Today, I dare say that the Geological Survey has completed its 100,000th scale exploration. If one wants to explore minerals today and continue to do the basics, one must go to larger scales. For example, he works on a scale of 50,000 or 25,000, but if he wants to do a search on a scale of 250,000 or 100,000, it is repetitive. We have identified and researched in the form of thematic exploration projects for various minerals, hammer explorations, bi-zone explorations, and geochemical explorations that are important to non-visual elements, and their reports are available to everyone. But what we lack today is underground studies and exploration on a larger scale of one hundred thousandths of a field of work. We are not saying that there is no mineral, but the work must go beyond this stage. That is, if the organization has sampled in geochemistry at intervals with a certain number, in order to get a better result, these sampling should be more intensive and we should do the work on a larger scale.

* The private sector complains about this issue and says that we will pay for the exploration, if according to the law, this is the duty of the Ministry of Silence as the custodian of the mining sector to do the exploration work and then leave it to us for exploitation.

No one can deny that the Geological Survey produced the basic information. That is, no one can say that the Geological Survey did not map 250,000, did not map 100,000, and did not provide us with geochemical information and sheets. This is all basic information that the organization has provided and provided to stakeholders, but it is time for the private sector to expect to be given large-scale exploration of the area that leads to the discovery of the mineral, which is called rent and the organization does not do. Rather, it provides it to applicants through auctions and in a healthy environment.

When it comes to an iron index or a mineral index, the geological organization decides to make it available to the public at an auction, the price and cost of which are set by a forensic expert, and the private sector that is able to do the work. It wins the auction to extract and exploit that mineral. But there is a time when it is said that the Geophysical Geological Survey has airspace and has 20 areas in hand, give us these areas. We also know that if we provide these areas to the private sector, some of them do not have the tools and some do not have the knowledge.

We urge the organization to bring such areas to a stage where their fate is determined so that they can be auctioned off to investors and mining activists. The organization does not exploit and does not take over the mine, but some mining activists already put pressure on the organization in various ways by members of parliament, the Ministry of Silence, governorates and organizations when they hear that the Geological Survey has encountered a mine somewhere. To get the work out of the organization more and more unfinished.

Because the art of organization is to find minerals, and no organization, body, or private sector like it has the expertise and ability to do so. It is because of these capabilities that they seek to take what the organization represents from the organization in any way possible. Sometimes they even use the issue of the geological organization's budget as an excuse and say that the organization's budget is small and it is better for it to give us this exploratory project so that we can complete it.

* Which organizations?

Better not be media.

* The head of the organization has said about aerial geophysics that it is being done in the form of a memorandum of understanding with the private sector, and even announced a jump of 300,000 square meters per year in the production jump. At what stage is this issue?

The organization can contract with the private sector to explore, and in return for the services it provides, its achievements will be its own. Just as large mining companies contract with the organization with sufficient funding, the zones registered in their name are subjected to aerial geophysical work. In order to complete an aerial geophysical cycle, ground work must be done, and in this regard, the organization has signed memoranda of understanding and contracts with the country's steel companies.

* Do not have a problem with technology and tools?

If I say no, it is not true. However, in some materials and parts, we are dependent on other countries and we have a problem, but we can still work.

* Do you work with the same tools and technology available?

Yes, we have good experts.

* If you want to classify the most strategic minerals in Iran according to the minerals in the country and its potentials, what is your priority?

Our priority is to complete the basic explorations according to the mission of the organization. This is the first priority. We have a number of geochemical sheets that have been worked on over the years, but some of these sheets have been analyzed for four mineral elements that we need to complete.

* How many elements should be increased?

Up to 48, 60, etc. The element can be increased. Some geological sheets have been worked on for 10 elements and in some places have not been analyzed for gold, which we have to complete. After that, our priority today is to search on a scale of 50,000.

* Is this scale started?

Yes, we are working. We will prepare 50,000 economic geological maps.

* what does it mean?

When a geological map has a geological guide, we put an economic guide next to it. In that guide, we show the mineral dispersion on geological maps in terms of time and space, and in this method we place at least a few large groups, including metals, non-metals, semi-precious minerals, and strategic elements, and when this set is categorized in an economic geological map. Almost all mineral potentials are known.

In this work, from lime to barite, silica, bauxite and various metals from each of the geological units that are prone and how it is shown, is shown. For example, in a map where the units are dolomite, we will specify exactly what the composition is, what the function is, and what the minerals will be used for.

* Is basic exploration and geology information now available to stakeholders in the Earth Science Database? How up-to-date is this site?

The database contains the data of the Geological Survey, but my complaint to other organizations and exploration and geological bodies in the country is that they do not have the necessary cooperation.

* That is, parallel organizations of the Geological Survey work in the field of exploration?

In terms of preparing a geological map, we do not have a parallel body. In the field of exploration, we have organizations parallel to the Geological Survey, whose information is not provided to the Earth Science Database.

* Which organizations?

Iran Mines and Mineral Industries Development and Renovation Organization (Imidro), Minerals Production Company, National Iranian Copper Industries Company, etc., which it is better to oblige the Ministry of Industry, Mines and Trade to provide their information. Set up a database so that everyone can use it and the work will not be repeated.

* Why is this overlap not done? However, the Geological Survey has not yet been established.

It is true that the organization is not newly established, but some things are beyond the organization's control.

* What is your suggestion as the organization's deputy director of exploration to bring these organizations closer together?

My suggestion is the roadmap that the parliament and the Ministry of Silence, especially Mr. Ismaili, who is now the Deputy Minister of Mines and was previously the chairman of the Parliamentary Mining Committee, at least Mr. Ismaili himself, who prepared this roadmap, will implement it as before. Be serious.

For example, if the roadmap states that the task of identification and exploration is solely the task of the geological organization, they should leave it to the organization. I say that things are repetitive because in the past and recent years, vast areas have been identified by various organizations, bodies and companies, but none of them have gone one step ahead of the 100,000 scale, and if we go back today, the result of all this work and costs for It has been a waste of national capital. Whether from government agencies or from the pockets of the private sector.

This means that if the Geological Survey is introduced as responsible for identifying and exploring minerals in the country, no other parallel organization should do so, or at least coordinate with the Geological Survey to avoid duplication of work. Or at least have excellent oversight or policy-making with the Geological Survey.

* Where is the monitoring?

The Geological Survey has over 600 experts, more than 83% of whom have a master's degree. No government organization or even university has this number of educated experts. The organization has educated and experienced manpower.

The current structure of the Ministry of Silence on Mineral Exploration is such that the overall authority and policy-making is in the hands of the Ministry's Deputy Minister of Minerals, the budget and money are in the hands of Imidro, and state-owned companies and experienced experts in the Geological Survey. In this situation, despite the good talks and memoranda of understanding that are signed, in practice, the work is not done as it should be and the desired result is not achieved. And sometimes we see that it is repetitive work, but when the geological organization does not have the option, it can not comment.

* This is my idea and I do not know how close it is to the reality of whether it is possible to identify each province or any geographical area of ​​the country according to the distribution of mineral elements with a specific mineral?

I do not agree with you. Why? Provinces are political and geographical borders, but geology does not know geographical borders. We divide the drawer into different zones based on the type of stone units and say Alborz zone, Central Iran zone, Zagros zone, East Iran zone, Binalood zone, Urmia-Dokhtar zone, etc.

Each of these zones is reproductive, prone to some minerals. Based on those boundaries, we can tell what kind of minerals these zones are prone to. For example, in the Zagros zones we expect less metal elements, but we expect bitumen, gypsum and lime. Or in the Urmia-Dokhtar and Sanandaj-Sirjan zones, we expect metal elements, copper, iron and gold.

A few years ago, news broke that a 50 billion tonne iron ore deposit had been discovered in the Lut Desert. Was this news true?

The person who announced this news was neither a geologist nor had the news a scientific basis.

* In which areas are Iran's mosaic and gold belts located?

We have good gold belts in different places, including Sanandaj-Sirjan belt. We have gold in Takab, Arasbaran, Tarom, Moallem (Tarbiat Heydariyeh), Kerman, Kashan, Nain, East Iran, Sistan and Baluchestan and Alborz.

What about iron ore?

We have different forms in different periods, but we have the best iron ore in Central Iran (Bafgh), Kerman (Gol Gohar) and Sangan of Khorasan, and scattered in different parts of the country in the region of Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, Zanjan, Semnan and around Kashan iron ore mines we have. We have a number of hematite iron in the salt domes of southern Iran.

* The distribution of decorative stone mines in Iran is high and it is not possible to find a province that does not have a decorative stone mine and does not include a specific zone.

Of course, depending on the type of rocks, we still have certain zones. We have some stones in some zones, but in general, most areas of Iran are prone to decorative and building stones. Like travertine, granite, marble, etc.

* One of the most notable materials in recent years has been rare earth elements and the discovery and processing of lithium. It is?

There is a lot of talk about rare earth elements and various projects have been carried out about it, but as someone who has been working and studying in the field of geology for more than 30 years, I can definitely say that Iran is not a rich country in terms of rare earth elements. Despite the fact that with various designs and projects, they find a small amount of rare earth elements and trumpet, but it is only for identification and study, but to expect to one day own a mine of rare earth elements and be a producer and exporter, such a thing. is not. The best rare earth elements of the country are in Central Iran and Bafgh region and the best result we got from it is that inside some apatites, including Gazestan apatite, there are about 2 to 2.5 monazites. It is also not economically viable to spend money on this. My advice is to spend our science, time and capital on other elements.

* How about lithium?

Unfortunately it is unknown and the main problem in lithium analysis.

* Why?

When we send a sample of lithium to the laboratory in 3 steps, it gives us three different answers, so I have not yet reached the confidence of the internal analyzes performed on lithium. But I do not deny whether there is a context in the country or not. It may exist because lithium has different origins. In some cases it is associated with igneous rocks and pegmatites and in some cases with brine and evaporative layers or with some evaporitic formations and gypsums that we have in abundance in Iran. It also comes with oil well brine. Because there are areas of this element and rocks that contain lithium in the country, I recommend studying them.

How much does lithium cost a country?

It is one of the high-tech elements and, for example, the issue of reducing environmental pollution and changing the technology of battery production is directly related to this type of element.

What have you done to explore lithium?

Some activities were done a few years ago, but it is in the early stages.

* Why? Because of the lab subject or was it not preferred?

It is not preferred, but various factors play a role; That the laboratory is equipped and specially works only on lithium, a team that focuses specifically on this element and a special budget is provided for this element, none of which has been provided so far. In general, there should be a specific exploration plan for different types of lithiums in order for this to happen.

* Is such a plan presented?

Presented by various agencies, organizations and companies, but because the plan is not comprehensive, it does not work.

* One of the areas considered as an exploration site is open water. Is there a need to enter that field in Iran, considering all the capabilities that exist inside?

If you mean the territorial waters of our country, such as the Persian Gulf and the Sea of ​​Oman, there is an organization called Marine Geology that works on this area. But if you mean international open waters, we do not have the equipment to participate in this sector.

* When you do exploration work, you also identify promising areas. Is the number of these ranges known?

The number of promising ranges is known, but I do not have the number in mind. In recent years, the organization has ceded almost all its exploration zones, but a number of areas in areas including Abbasabad, Semnan, Chaharmahal Bakhtiari, Qom, Gilan, Khartouran, Semnan, Siahkal, Qazvin, Safiabad, Jiroft, Koohrang, Isfahan, Kerman, Fars, Kurdistan Frieden, Hormozgan, Shahrokht Birjand, etc., which is prone to elements such as copper, iron and gold.

In the last few years, about 131,000 square kilometers of land have been vacated, and about 400 square kilometers of it, which is prone to rich minerals, are in the possession of the Geological Survey, which will soon be handed over through auction.

* What does "liberated" mean?

Since its inception, the Geological Survey has provided all the basic information for each area it determined, and did not seek to record the area, so that in the first and second twenty zones, which studied about 900,000 square kilometers, it did not register any area in its name. But at times it was felt that the rights of some were being violated. Therefore, the organization decided to register the more accurately identified mineral areas in its name and then hand them over to the private or public sector through an auction. Accordingly, the organization, in order to study in a certain area, first blocks it and then starts working. Once the exploration work is complete, it introduces areas that are prone to minerals on an organization-wide scale to the private sector, and the rest of the area is free, and others can study and explore.

* Where are the first and second zones you mentioned geographically?

In the 1980s, the organization's policy was to separate some geographical areas of the country based on geological features or areas on which less exploration work has been done. In the first stage, there were 20 areas and in the second stage, there were 20 areas, each of which is called an exploration zone. A total of 900,000 square kilometers of the country's soil was combined using geological, geochemical, economic geological, aerial geophysical and telemetry data in a GIS environment, and economic geology was tested on them, and a separate report was prepared for each.

* One of the issues that is raised and may not be professionally related to your field, but considering that you are of this type and have experience and specialized and expert information in it, is the mineral capabilities that are considered for Iran. That Iran's mineral revenues can be replaced by oil revenues by processing and exporting crude stone. How true is this?

A mineral is subject to various factors; Is it close to or far from the consumer market? How does the industry use it? How does politics deal with it? In a way, politics also influences it. We may be able to make progress in mining, but sanctions are coming in and stopping exports.

Iran has good mineral potential. We have good reserves of copper, and we still do not know the reserves of gold well. Worse, we can not exploit our well-known resources and sell raw materials. We can make progress in the mining sector, but this sector can also suffer from the same oil industry.

The country has good potential in this field, provided that the processing and applications of these materials are worked on simultaneously with exploration and extraction. In Iran, for example, more attention is paid to metallic elements, while in developed countries, non-metallic deposits are preferred to metallic ones. If one day we get to a point where non-metals outnumber metals, then we can think of substituting mineral revenues for oil.

The same goes for building stones. We may not be able to make the right cuts and slabs, we may not be able to process it, and we may not be able to get the support we need for exports due to rapidly changing laws, but we have a lot of potential in terms of mineral power.

Exploration in Iran is a superficial exploration and we have not done any deep exploration yet. We have to go that way.

We are weak in the underground mining industry, because we had minerals in the surface, we did not go deep. However, working in that area requires more risk, more capital and more advanced technology.

Regarding the crude sales you mentioned, private mining activists say that whenever the mineral ore export market thrives, governments stir up the crude sales debate and challenge us. They further increase government mining rights and increase export duties. A comparison of the exports of decorative stones between Iran and Turkey in the decade of 2009 to 1398 shows that although Turkey also sells raw materials, in 1398 it was able to increase its exports of decorative stones to $ 6 billion and occupy Iranian markets. But in Iran, mining activists are still accused of selling raw materials, and their markets and mines will be shut down over time. Do you think it is right to use raw materials?

Some of the above are true, but healthy competition must be created. For example, the country's steel industry needs iron ore and also exports iron. All officials know the truth but can not find a solution. The first thing they do is stop exports.

There is a dichotomy here; When the steel industry wants to sell its steel, it sells it at world prices and in dollars, but it buys iron ore from the country's miner in rials and at domestic and cheap prices. If Iranian steel is to be compared with world steel, iron ore must also be weighed against the world price of iron ore. So the miner is not willing to sell his iron ore to steel. If this policy is consistently sustained, it will find its rightful place. The same goes for building stone. If it is supposed to be a procedure or a law, that law must continue. Every day that the law is changed and the miner is unable to send his raw stone to the export market, he loses his market. The buyer is looking for a backed mineral. A stone that has a special feature, a specific specification and is sustainable for a specific market and project. If a stone finds a market and cannot reach that market by changing the law, it loses its market.

* What is the situation of the country in terms of semi-precious stones?

The best semi-precious stone in the country is turquoise. Iran does not have significant semi-precious stones compared to Afghanistan, but it does have fluorine and some semi-precious minerals that the country's artisans can process. If we facilitate the lathe industry and its export and import, we can give good development to this sector.

* Do you have a numerical assessment of the area of ​​Iran's mineral land?

I will answer your question differently; What do you say to a mineral? It is once said that sand and lime are not minerals, but in some parts of the country, sand or brine and its valuable evaporates in deserts, seaside, clay, Hormoz soils or even wind sands of some geographical areas of Iran, It is a mineral. In fact, with this view, all parts of Iran are prone to minerals. As I said, every part of Iran, due to its geological characteristics, is prone to certain minerals from borrowed sources, non-metallic materials, metallic materials, and so on.

"In fact, you (Iran) are the only one who has all the good things."

No place in Iran can be found without minerals, even in cups and plays that are prone to evaporative salts such as nitrates, salts, sulfates, etc.

* What is the relationship between the organization and the Deputy Minister of Exploration with mining organizations?

We do not have a very strong relationship, however we do joint projects. We are currently working on projects with companies looking for iron ore. The Geological Survey and other government agencies should do the exploration work in such a way that more private sector enters the field. It should not be the case that the boundaries and zones are given to state-owned companies and the private sector is not able to carry out the necessary activities. The more we give ground to the private sector, the less burden we place on the government. State-owned companies must provide the basis for the entry of private companies.

* So it is not so now?

Yes, this is not the case, and sometimes state-owned companies try to get the sites from the Geological Survey, and with the tools at their disposal, they try to prevent the sites from being put up for public auction. We must not allow mineral areas to fall into the hands of the public sector. When we want to produce a basic work, it must have the necessary budget. The Geological Survey is not a miner, so it must have the necessary budget and facilities.

What has made it difficult to explore the country today is the Environment and Natural Resources Organization. We know that the environment and natural resources must be preserved for the future, but these two organizations, under various pretexts, have shut down many works and projects and stagnated capital.

If we look at the size of the mines in the country, it is less than one hundred percent, but the smallest mine in one place is trumpeted and deprived of its government salaries, while if they spend its government salaries on its prosperity and planting trees, there would be no problem. But they do not allow it and the funds are wasted.

Sometimes we see that according to the law which is explicit, the investor asks for a limit for a mineral. In the meantime, the environmental organization comes and takes part of that area at its own discretion and gives a small area to the miner and says that you can only work in this area.

* Is it really not possible to coordinate between these organizations?

Decisions and the implementation of their tastes have brought the work here. Unfortunately, the law does not apply. There is no problem if they make Article 24 of the Mining Law their top priority.

* How do you see the potential of the country's private sector in the field of mining?

The private sector is good at detailed exploration. It has good facilities and experts, but it does not spend money or is not very capable in providing basic information and identification and research. And at this stage, the organization can help them, but it needs more funding, and currently the organization's annual budget is not enough.

In the past, the organization had its own revenue, with private companies contracting with the organization, paying for exploration, and exploring the country. This partnership was very effective for the organization and the country, but unfortunately in 1398, this special revenue was removed by the parliament from the 1399 budget law. If this income is restored, it will play an important role in the development of the country's exploration, and the private sector can use the power of the Geological Survey by investing in the exploration industry.

* Tasnim